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Danfoss inverter - uszkodzenie IGBT przy uruchomieniu po naprawie wentylatora

Guna 18 Sty 2018 03:46 1449 18
  • #1 16969919
    Guna
    Poziom 6  
    Hey need a help guys. I have a danfoss inverter that previously the alarm was " heatsink overtemperature " and the inverter incoming diode and output igbt was damage ready. After i troubleshoot the inverter and i found the inverter fan has no supply. And then i found a transistor at the powerboard loss contact. After repair it the fan was work normally. When i give enable to the inverter igbt damage again. Need help. I attach picture of old igbt and the new one i replace.
  • #2 16969962
    Krzysztof Kamienski
    Poziom 43  
    Dificult understand You, U know ? :cry: Was happend after change IGBT module's ? You wrote, if fan power supply is all ready repair, and fan working. And what ? Before the inwerter give message ,,Overheat". This problem created one transistor in the power supply cooling fan. After change IGBT modules, You get message ,, IGBT damage" ? Its possible, if You no use a termogrease beetwen new IGBT block's and heatsink.
    Piszesz, że falownik wyświetlał komunikat o przegrzaniu, na skutek niedziałania wentylatora radiatora. To jest jak najbardziej możliwe. Ale co dalej? Naprawiłeś zasilanie wentylatora i on teraz pracuje. Wymieniłeś na nowe moduły IGBT ? Przy ich instalacji użyłeś termopasty pomiedzy blokami IGBT a radiatorem? Jezeli nie, to nowe bloki prawdopodobnie uległy przegrzaniu i zniszczeniu.
  • #3 16969967
    Guna
    Poziom 6  
    The initial problem was heatsink overheat. i repair the fan and i replace the new igbt. After that i try to run the inverter and the igbt damage again.

    Dodano po 58 [sekundy]:

    Krzysztof Kamienski napisał:
    Dificult understand You, U know ? :cry: Was happend after change IGBT modules ? You wrote, if fan power supply is all ready repair, and fan working. And what ? Before the inwerter give message ,,Overheat". This problem create one transistor in the power supply cooling fan. After change IGBT modules, You get message ,, IGBT damage" ? Its possible, if You no use a termogrease beetwen new IGBT block's and heatsink.


    The initial problem was heatsink overheat. i repair the fan and i replace the new igbt. After that i try to run the inverter and the igbt damage again.
  • Pomocny post
    #4 16969975
    Krzysztof Kamienski
    Poziom 43  
    You don't have ,,short circuit " between this Inverter and motor cable's ? Motor is check to properly coil's resistance?. Also isolation motors is measured? How many volt's You have in DC line (in main capacitor)? Six diodes bridge is OK ? I don't know noting, to by solute some help for U yet. But in the margin - in the future - try use Google Translator to better understanding U ask's for all Friend's in the Forum. :D

    Sprawdziłeś na obecność zwarcia połączenia miedzy tym falownikiem a silnikiem? Stan izolacji silnika. Zmierzyłeś napięcie na szynie DC i kondensatorze głównym, oraz mostku prostowniczym?
  • #5 16970004
    Guna
    Poziom 6  
    Krzysztof Kamienski napisał:
    You no have ,,short circuit " between this Inverter and motor cable's ? Motor is check to properly coil's resistance?. Also isolation motors is measured? How many volts You have in DC line (in main capacitor?) Six dides bridge is OK ? I don't know noting, to by solute some help for U yet. But in the margin - in the future - try use Google Translator to better understanding U ask's for all Friend's in the Forum. :D

    Sprawdziłeś na obecność zwarcia połączenia miedzy tym falownikiem a silnikiem? Stan izolacji silnika. Zmierzyłeś napięcie na szynie DC i kondensatorze głównym, oraz mostku prostowniczym?


    The inverter can power on (no problem). But when start run the inverter trip and igbt short. I run without motor. I already try to translate but some friends already tell the translation is worst. 😜
  • #6 16970013
    Krzysztof Kamienski
    Poziom 43  
    Guna napisał:
    friends already tell the translation is worst. 😜
    Not all out. :D What is the power of the inverter and power supply voltage? Try disconect DC line out of IGBT module's than check an it. Message must by itch other - ,,no Power" for example.
    Spróbuj uruchomić ten falownik przy odłączonym napieciu DC na blok IGBT. Co się wtedy wyświetli?
  • #7 16970020
    Guna
    Poziom 6  
    Krzysztof Kamienski napisał:
    Guna napisał:
    friends already tell the translation is worst. 😜
    Not all out. :D What is the power of the inverter and power supply voltage? Try disconect DC line out of IGBT module's than check an it. Message must by itch other - ,,no Power" for example.
    Spróbuj uruchomić ten falownik przy odłączonym napieciu DC na blok IGBT. Co się wtedy wyświetli?
  • #8 16970040
    Krzysztof Kamienski
    Poziom 43  
    O lala :D . Heavy Duty Inverter - 110 kW with 400 VAC. Check after disconect out of IGBT DC tension. Some inverters behave like this, without ballast (motor).
    Advice # 6.
    Potężny falownik. Niektóre falowniki wyświetlaja ,,dziwne" komunikaty uruchamiane bez obciążenia, szczególnie o takiej mocy.
    Sprawdź, zgodnie z moim postem # 6.
  • #9 16970066
    Guna
    Poziom 6  
    Can not power on. Must have to use igbt. The dc bus bar design like that.

    Dodano po 4 [minuty]:

    Krzysztof Kamienski napisał:
    O lala :D . Heavy Duty Inverter - 110 kW with 400 VAC. Check after disconect out of IGBT DC tension. Some inverters behave like this, without ballast (motor).
    Advice # 6.
    Potężny falownik. Niektóre falowniki wyświetlaja ,,dziwne" komunikaty uruchamiane bez obciążenia, szczególnie o takiej mocy.
    Sprawdź, zgodnie z moim postem # 6.



    Can not power on. Must have to use igbt. The dc bus bar design like that.
    But without motor also the inverter igbt damage ready. U have any other suggestions?
  • #10 16970077
    Krzysztof Kamienski
    Poziom 43  
    Then connect some ballast to check. I use 6 bulb's 100 W/ 110 V, connected serial & parallei. Tree time two, connect like a star.

    Podłącz jakiekolwiek obciążenie trójfazowe pod ten falownik. Ja używam szcześć żarówek, do wstępnego sprawdzania falowników.
  • #11 16970085
    Guna
    Poziom 6  
    Krzysztof Kamienski napisał:
    Then connect some ballast to check. I use 6 bulb's 100 W/ 110 V, connected serial & parallei. Tree time two, connect like a star.

    Podłącz jakiekolwiek obciążenie trójfazowe pod ten falownik. Ja używam szcześć żarówek, do wstępnego sprawdzania falowników.


    I don't know that method friend. 🙁 Can u show or teach?
  • #13 17064331
    2345
    Poziom 13  
    Those are very complex inverters. What's your BUS voltage? What's the incoming voltage? I would use 2 incandescent bulbs in parallel each phase to avoid blowing them up. That makes it 6 bulbs 220V, if you have access to those. The bulbs won't light up normally - just be darker.

    How do you know the IGBT is damaged?
    Have you tried measuring them?
  • #15 17064337
    2345
    Poziom 13  
    How do you know that. Did you measure it?
    What if he has 480V and keeps blowing IGBTs and input rectifier?
    What if someone replaced incoming separation transformer, changed system voltage, and keeps blowing the inverter?
  • #16 17064338
    Krzysztof Kamienski
    Poziom 43  
    2345 napisał:
    Skąd wiesz, że IGBT jest uszkodzony?
    Czy próbowałeś je zmierzyć?
    The first symptom IGBT damage, is a displayed error ,,OL" overload, from DC offset in the output to the motor. Also, without a load connect, due you have DC voltage ,,lakagge". Disconect motor, then messure. To check gate's of IGBT osciloscope is neccesary.

    Apologize :cry: 640 VDC for AC supply 480 V. Me mistake :D
  • #17 17064340
    2345
    Poziom 13  
    No it's not. Not in those inverters. Those can have damaged bridge driver. They sense the dead time presence - and it will signal damage to IGBT as well.

    Look - he said he had rectifier damage. This is serious. This whole thing could be blown up.
    Why did the rectifier fail? That is very rare.

    Also - those have a remote temperature sensing input for a motor thermocouple.
    If turned on - it can also indicate over temperature error. (OT)

    Dodano po 3 [minuty]:

    By the way - an OL message sometimes show up on it - when close to overcurrent protection setting. This means OL is not really a sensed overload - but calculated overload.
  • #18 17064386
    Konto nie istnieje
    Konto nie istnieje  
  • #19 17066116
    2345
    Poziom 13  
    Good point. But we don't know which one blew up again, because he didn't say.
    We don't even know if it failed for sure. The guy needs to respond in detail and check all of it.

    But bridge driver defect is something that requires troubleshooting and some advance knowledge about scoping the driver signals. Especially on the High side. This is not a beginners class.

    Lack of proper description of the problem causes us to guess only.
    Is the high side IGBT failing only? Or is it a low side?
    How quickly did it blow up? Etc.

    Those IGBTs are designed to survive short time of shoot through.
    I do not have specific data to support this one - but generally they survive 1 ms and sometimes up to 5 ms shorting current. When the other side driver works, then the current flow is controlled by the other side PWM. Then the bridge could actually work partially, start-up and then just fault out and shut down. So the IGBT wouldn't blow up. It is very complex repair with those high power inverters.

    So far - by his brief description - looks like both sides open up and at least one IGBT blows up. There is no way to repair it like that by just swapping parts.
REKLAMA